There are a lot of theories on the causes of the recession of 2007-08, commonly referred to as The Great Recession. The right blames government intervention in financial markets, low interest rates, and easy credit, while the left blames free market excess, greed, and deregulation. I thought it might be worthwhile to compile a list of causes based on some of the most intelligent analysis, and see if we can’t identify the people who caused this mess.
Based on analyses from Robert Samuelson in The Wilson Quarterly (Winter 2011), the editors of National Review (January 2011), and Peter Wallison in The American Spectator (May 2011), I compiled two lists. The first is a short list of causes that have been discredited, followed by a list of four causes that are more likely.
Discredited Causes of The Great Recession
Deregulation One explanation for The Great Recession is a lack of regulation, primarily in the financial sector. This explanation doesn’t hold up, however, because the major players in the collapse are heavily regulated and have been for many years. If there is any blame on the part of regulators, it’s that they were no smarter than the people who were being regulated and they didn’t anticipate the problems that led to the financial downturn. One could argue that this is the primary role of a regulator, so blame would rest on the government bureaucrat.
Greed and Dishonesty Another explanation for the financial collapse is the greed and dishonesty of Wall Street. In this case, the explanation is insufficient because there has never been a shortage of greed on Wall Street, and 2007-08 were no different. Ultimately, this is just an emotional reaction – one that makes the accuser feel that they hold some moral high ground – and is not based in reality. Greed is a part of any economic activity, and there was no unusually high amount of greed and dishonesty in 2007-08.
Moral Hazard A third cause, frequently cited by those on the right, is that the federal government introduced a moral hazard on Wall Street. In other words, the major players in the financial sector believed that they could take irrational risks knowing that they would be bailed out. Once again, this explanation is inadequate because historically most investors have not been protected from their financial losses. That means that in 2007-08, it was impossible for anyone to predict in advance who would be bailed out, so there was no moral hazard introduced ahead of the financial collapse (that isn’t to say that moral hazard has not now been introduced based on later actions by the federal government).
Reality-Based Causes of The Great Recession
Cause #1: Housing Policy (National Review, American Spectator)
As we entered the recession, as many as half of all mortgages in the U.S. were considered inferior and liable to default. This was a clear result of government housing policies to encourage home ownership, which resulted in a broad misallocation of capital, loosened mortgage standards, and created distortions in the real estate market. For example, the 1977 Community Reinvestment Act required that banks offer loans to borrowers in their service area that were at or below 80% of the area’s median income. In other words, banks were required to offer loans to people who were less able to afford a mortgage, and they weren’t allowed to use their own lending standards.
On top of this, the Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) had an official policy of increasing home ownership by lowering mortgage underwriting standards. This had a significant effect on the quality of mortgages in circulation prior to the recession.
So who’s to blame for the housing policies that caused the recession? HUD was created by Lyndon Johnson (a Democrat) after passage of the Department of Housing and Urban Development Act by a Democrat-controlled House and Senate in 1965. The Community Reinvestment Act was signed into law by Jimmy Carter (another Democrat) after, once again, passing through a Democrat-controlled House and Senate. It would appear that Democrats are to blame.
Cause #2: Banking Regulations (National Review, American Spectator)
Another cause of the 2007-08 recession was banking regulation that a) concentrated mortgage securities with a small number of firms, b) offered implied government insurance on bad mortgages, and c) established accounting guidelines that allowed banks to significantly reduce their capital positions. This is where Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac come in. Both entities, while technically private entities, made the federal government the implicit backers of every mortgage held. That implied guarantee was made explicit once they were bailed out following this latest recession.
Another factor that is relatively under-played is the use of mark-to-market accounting, which allowed financial institutions to over-leverage themselves as long as home prices were rising, and severely tightened credit – making it harder for the market to recover – as home prices collapsed. No less than the former FDIC chair William Isaac placed much of the blame for the mortgage crisis on the SEC’s fair-value accounting rules, which allowed banks to “mark” their assets according to their current market value instead of their real value. For example, a home loan for $300,000 could be marked up to $500,000 if home values appreciated enough. This additional $200,000 in assets allowed the bank to lend out more dollars and stay within its legally defined capital ratio. Unfortunately, when the home’s value fell to $250,000, the bank had to adjust its assets downward, even though they still received a monthly mortgage check on a $300,000 mortgage. Naturally, the fall in the housing market ensured that every bank in the country exceeded its capital ratio and became unable to lend, thanks to mark-to-market accounting.
Who’s to blame for these banking regulations? It’s probably no surprise that the progressive champion FDR signed Fannie Mae into law in 1938. In 1970, a Republican president and Democrat House and Senate authorized Fannie Mae to purchase mortgages, as well as brought Freddie Mac into existence. In 1992, a Democrat House and Senate established affordable housing goals along with the signature of George H.W. Bush (a Republican). And in 1999, Bill Clinton (a Democrat) began pressuring Fannie Mae to increase its ratio of loans to moderate- and low-income home buyers.
Blame for mark-to-market is not as easy to assign. The accounting practice has been around since the 1980s and has gone through periods of corporate abuse and subsequent clarification by the SEC, IRS, and FASB. While I’m no expert, it appears that the source of our problems began in 1993 (a Democrat era) with guidance issued in FAS 115 that defines how to value an asset or security with readily determinable fair values. As discussed above, mark-to-market accounting was not a problem as long as asset values were rising, but once the housing market began to tank, the house of cards fell fast. It was only corrected on September 30, 2008 (once again a Democrat era) when an SEC/FASB joint clarification was issued essentially lifting mark-to-market and allowing other methods of valuing assets.
Cause #3: Interest Rate Policy (National Review)
A third cause of the 2007-08 recession is the Federal Reserve’s policy on low interest rates. Extremely low rates provide cheap money and easy credit, which was obviously a contributor to the housing and lending policies described above. This low-rate policy is a relatively recent phenomenon (historical table):
- Paul Volcker (1979-1987): Low of 6% to a high of around 20%
- Alan Greenspan (1987-2006): Between 3% and 6 ½% prior to 2000, but very low following the 9/11 attacks, never rising above 5% before his departure
- Ben Bernanke (2006-present): Brought to historically low levels for historically low periods of time
For the record, Samuelson disagrees on this point and says that low interest rates are only a partial cause. His argument is that, while low rates will result in investors shifting into long-term bonds, a larger factor was the large inflow of foreign money, which the Fed could not control.
In this case, it’s not as easy to assign blame since the Fed Chairmanship is supposed to be a non-political position. Nonetheless, both Greenspan and Bernanke are registered Republicans and were originally appointed by Republican presidents. Since both were re-appointed by Democrats, we’ll have to say that both parties share the blame equally.
Cause #4: Inflation-Suppression Policy (Samuelson)
The final cause of The Great Recession is the inflation-suppression policy that our government has held since the 1980s. The argument is that taming inflation led to lower interest rates and a general feeling that the business cycle had grown less volatile. As a result, households felt richer, which led to a surge in borrowing by both households and institutions and eventually a lowering of lending standards and, most importantly, misreading of risk.
Many of us assume that interest rate policy and inflation policy are the same, but in fact interest rates are a component of inflation policy. An inflation-suppression policy will include a) managing interest rates (monetary policy), b) supply side policies like privatization and deregulation, c) managing tax rates and government spending (fiscal policy), and d) manipulation of currency exchange rates.
In order to assign blame, let’s consider each in turn. a) Interest rates were discussed above, and b) supply-side policies are very clearly a Republican economic policy. We could debate c) “managing tax rates” forever and never reach agreement on whether this means raising or lowering them, and I’ve already demonstrated on this blog that Democrats are 68% at fault for our spending problems.
The last component is d) the value of the dollar, which is important because a strong dollar keeps imports cheap while a weak dollar increases the effects of inflation. There is no good way to assign blame here since every administration, Democrat or Republican, claims that it has a strong dollar policy. If we were to base our decision on a chart of the value of a dollar over time, we would see strength in the 80s and 90s and weakness since 2001. Whether this is the result of actual policy is debatable, and both periods cross Democrat and Republican administrations, so we’ll call it a draw.
Keeping Score
Fault of the Democrats
|
Fault of the Republicans
| |
Bad Housing Policy
|
100%
|
0%
|
Bad Banking Regulation
|
66%
|
34%
|
Mark-to-Market*
|
100%
|
0%
|
Interest Rate Policy
|
50%
|
50%
|
Supply-Side Economics
|
0%
|
100%
|
Excessive Spending
|
68%
|
32%
|
Strong Dollar Policy
|
50%
|
50%
|
TOTAL
|
62%
|
38%
|
*Although the Democrats did eventually clean up their own mess
Ultimately, it appears that Democrats and their progressive policies are mostly to blame for The Great Recession of 2007-08. This is primarily attributable to their bad housing policies and banking regulation and less about support for low interest rates and inflation-suppression policies. In those instances, both parties are to blame.
Not wishing to disrespect the quality of work you've done here, but I think the problem isn't so much the Dems vs the Reps as the fact that they colluded to empower their core constituencies. The Democrats saw disparate impact (of low income and credit scores) and called it racism; the Republicans saw an opportunity to make big bucks if traditional practices got out of the way.
ReplyDeleteMiddle Americans thought "If you can't get a 6% thirty-year mortgage, you need to get your financial affairs in order before trying to buy a home. If that mortgage doesn't get you the house you want, you need to re-align your expectations."
Just like illegal immigration -- the Dems see civil rights; the Reps see a cheap labor source for business; Joe and Jane American see their paychecks undercut and taxes go up.
Well said, WMarkW! I'm so tired of the same old party-line, either-or, my-way-or-the-highway rhetoric. All this bipartisan blaming of the other party has really gotten us nowhere. I'm all for analyzing the situation and how/where things went wrong. But all of these point-by-point analyses of which party is to blame? Total waste of time. Particularly because this whole thing was allowed to develop under Both parties watch.
DeleteBoth parties dropped the ball on this. Period. How about an intelligent analysis of some possible solutions?
There are many different economic theories on how best to handle a recession. I'm specifically referring to legitimate theories by professional economists, not politicians who proclaim they are experts but clearly have an ulterior motive as soon as they open their mouths. How about an objective, non-partisan attempt to put some of these theories into plain English, for those who are not economic scholars? How refreshing that would be!
Mark, many won't believe me, but my goal was never to blame Democrats over Republicans, but to list the substantiated causes of the recession and research the origins of those policies. Just so happens, Democrats are more to blame.
ReplyDeleteI disagree with a few of your comments. First, I don't think there was any collusion between the two parties. Perhaps they were each looking out for their constituencies, but I don't think there was active collusion. I realize you may not have meant literal "collusion" and I'm making too much of that point.
Second, I really don't think for Republicans these policies were about making big bucks or even helping out their business donors. I think they incorrectly bought into the idea that home ownership is an end in itself and government should make it easier. Plus, they believe in conservative economic policies like the strong dollar and supply-side economics, so they were just following their ideology.
Lastly, I don't understand your comment about middle Americans. I was raised at a time when I was expected to put 20% down on a home before buying. But my wife and I still got sucked in on our first house with a 0% down loan and variable ARM. It worked out okay for us, but not for many others. I think middle Americans were just buying into the tripe that they should want to buy a house, and they made what they thought were smart economic decisions.
I do agree with you that Democrats followed their usual pattern looking for inequality and ways to implement their version of social justice with their housing policy decisions.
I agree with your list of Reality-Based Causes, Heathen. To add some minor background details to Cause #1, 2003 saw ACORN activists and politicians with similar mindsets, such as Barney Frank, engage in a concerted effort to pressure banks under the guise of the Community Re-investment Act (read discrimination) to relax mortgage underwriting guidelines. Given Barney's powerful Congressional "oversight" position over the GSEs, they immediately fell into line by giving the redistrubution schemers the final component needed to achieve success -- a complete reversal in GSE policy. FNMA and FHLMC forsaked their high lending standards that protected the real estate market and for the first time ever they started buying high risk loans. The free for all that ensued drove property values up disproportionately. Bonds that were securitized by high risk loans were overrated then sold around the world. The real estate industry collapsed with the expected exponential increase in non-performing loans. In a nutshell, government interference caused the Great Recession.
DeleteI have never seen so many numbers mean so little.
ReplyDeleteYes, one of the less scientific of your analyses, thus far. Not really worth a rebuttal, as it would be equally arbitrary and unscientific.
ReplyDeleteI actually do want to see a liberal rebuttal. I am very interested, but not for the discovery involved, but rather for the game of it. If I had more time, I would play.
John and Bret, all I've done is synthesize the analyses of others and research the source legislation for each cause. Your rebuttals are sadly inadequate [shakes head in sad disappointment].
ReplyDeleteIf you disagree so strongly, feel free to dispute the four causes listed or add your own causes for The Great Recession. If you agree with the four causes, feel free to offer your own arguments that make it the fault of Republicans.
I know that you both think any analysis that puts Democrats at fault can't be a fair analysis, but sometimes Democrats screw up.
As an example of my good faith in this piece, I still believe that supply-side economics are valid. It was cited as one cause, however, so I included it hear and placed 100% of the blame on Republicans.
I offer rebuttal when rebutting pays for itself. Arbitrarily weighting responsibilities and artificial interpretations of data seem inane to me. Any liberal could present an equally "convincing" analysis to refute this one, but the process itself seems so flawed to me that preparing such a thing cannot hold my interest.
ReplyDeleteNo one understands the exact factors that caused the recession and no one knows who all exactly contributed and how. I have no interest in making up a fake rebuttal to an honest, yet flawed effort someone else made to answer the question.
I did not make a sad rebuttal. I declined to play the game. I just wanted to make the point that it is a game, and nothing more.
I don't know how Democrats are 68% responsible for "Excessive Spending" when the debt increased 12 Trillion dollars under three Republican administrations.
ReplyDeleteTom, it's fairly straightforward. You can see all of the details in my original post linked above, but you also need to work from accurate data. Where in the world did you come up with $12t?
ReplyDeleteFirst, we need to acknowledge that no administration is singularly responsible for government spending; congress has a significant role to play. If you consider congress' "power of the purse" we can say that the Senate, House, and president share 33% of the responsibility for passing budgetary legislation.
Next, the formula for arriving at 68% is pretty simple. Add up all debt accumulated in each two year period, and divide it by party affiliation. For example, in 2003-04 Republicans grew the debt by $755b, and they are 100% responsible for it. But in 1987-88, when $312b was added to the debt, Reagan is only one-third responsible because the Senate and House were in Democrat hands.
When you only account for debt based on who's in the White House, you're completely ignoring the party in congress. It's pretty common for presidents of one party to serve alongside a congress of the opposite party, but it would be unfair to say that all debt is the fault of the president, don't you think?
Back in 2004, any attempt to reign in (no pun intended; Franklin Raines) Fannie and Freddie was seen by certain members of Congress (can you say, Maxine Waters, that idiot, Meeks?) as borderline racism. Couple that with the cluelessness (not to mention, conflict of interest - he was sleeping with one of the officials) of Barney Frank and, yeah, this was definitely a major bipartisan screw-up.
ReplyDeleteI just left Fair and Unbalance where your main cause of the recession is mocked a bit. It is really quite amusing. Again, these kinds of "facts" as presented, are nothing more than a game, but it is still amusing. The gist of it points
ReplyDeletehere in case you are interested.
@John, the left likes to point to the results of the Democrat-dominated commission. One of my sources above was on the commission and dissents:
ReplyDelete"In March 2010, Edward Pinto, a resident fellow (and my colleague) at the American Enterprise Institute who had served as chief credit officer at Fannie Mae, sent the Commission a 70-page, fully sourced memorandum on the number of subprime and other high-risk mortgages in the financial system in 2008. Pinto's research showed that he had found more than 25 million such mortgages (his later work showed that there were approximately 27 million). Since there are about 55 million mortgages in the U.S., Pinto's research indicated that, as the financial crisis began, half of all U.S. mortgages were of inferior quality and liable to default when housing prices were no longer rising. In August, Pinto supplemented his initial research with a paper documenting the efforts of the Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD), over two decades and through two administrations, to increase home ownership by reducing mortgage-underwriting standards.
"Any objective investigation of the causes of the financial crisis would have looked carefully at Pinto's research, exposed it to the members of the Commission, taken Pinto's testimony, and tested the accuracy of his research. But the Commission took none of these steps. Pinto's memos were never made available to the other members of the FCIC, or even to the commissioners who were members of the subcommittee charged with considering the role of housing policy in the financial crisis."
While it is clear that lax lending standards are at least one factor to be considered when apportioning blame, there is ample evidence to rebut the argument that the CRA is the primary (or even significant) cause for the crisis in the home real estate market:
ReplyDelete1. The period of most stringent enforcement of the CRA was during the Clinton administration, long before the loans at the heart of the real estate market collapse were originated.
2. The CRA only covers banks; mortgage companies and brokers are not subject to CRA oversight. Half of subprime loans were made by mortgage companies that were not covered by CRA regulation, and only 25 percent of subprime loans were made by CRA regulated banking institutions.
3. A report by the law firm Traiger & Hinckley, using data obtained through the Home Mortgage Disclosure Act, found that “CRA Banks were substantially less likely than other lenders to make the kinds of risky home purchase loans that helped fuel the foreclosure crisis,” and “without the CRA, the subprime crisis and related spike in foreclosures might have negatively impacted even more borrowers and neighborhoods.”
what about the GLB act that abolished Glass Steagall? And the Commodity Futures Modernization Act? I've heard both these referenced in the blame game but not here. I personally don't know enough about them but curious where they fall in your argument.
ReplyDeleteevilstepmother, for the most part I was trying to break down the quality analyses I've seen, and I didn't run across any that blamed the Gramm-Leach-Bliley or Commodity Futures Modernization Acts, so I didn't address them above.
ReplyDeleteI don't personally feel qualified to judge who and what caused the Great Recession, which is why I depend on others for the above post. But since you raise it, I'll offer a few thoughts.
Gramm-Leach-Bliley, bipartisan legislation signed into law by Bill Clinton: Apparently this is the source of the charge that deregulation of the financial sector created our crisis, including the creation of financial institutions that were too big to fail. President Obama himself has made those charges. I see three flaws with this argument:
1) It was legal for financial institutions to hold sub-prime products prior to the passage of GLB.
2) Most investment banks did not merge with depository institutions after GLB was passed, and those that did weathered the crisis in the best shape.
3) If too big to fail is the concern, the actions of Obama and Bush have exacerbated too big to fail by allowing even larger mergers following the crisis.
Commodity Futures Modernization Act, bipartisan (nearly unanimous) legislation signed into law by Bill Clinton: I understand very little of the law and its regulation of OTC derivatives, futures, securities, and credit default swaps. From the reading, it sounds like it may have been a big player in the Enron mess, but has nothing to do with subprime mortgage lending, which was already legal.
Thanks for bringing them to my attention, but I can't offer much more than that.
Here is some good reading if you have the time, with substantial overlap between the two articles:
ReplyDeletehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late-2000s_financial_crisis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subprime_mortgage_crisis
I trust that everyone is capable of following citations if necessary.
I googled "what caused great recession" and your blog came up second to Wikipedia-not too shabby! Even though your post is nearly 5 months old, it still seems timely and got a knee jerk liberal reaction from me.
ReplyDeleteI think your sources ignored the role of deregulation and business friendly regulators. The example of the 1977 Community Reinvestment Act is a bit dated and far fetched. According to Krugman, it only applied to depository banks which only had a fraction of the bad loans. The Bush administration seemed reluctant to enforce regulations in general and boasted of cutting them. Greenspan could have regulated subprime mortgages, but chose not to.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/18/business/18subprime.html?pagewanted=all
When the housing bubble peaked in 2004-2006, Fannie and Freddy took a back seat to the big banks who had lobbied the SEC to loosen restrictions on how much debt their mortgage units could take, causing huge growth in the subprime market through private companies
Those on the left see the Moral Hazard as coming from financial firms making Liar's Loans. The broker of a crappy subprime mortgage immediately passes it on to someone else, getting rewarded immediately and not having to wait for 30 years. The broker also escapes any fall out for creating the bad loan-it's someone else's problem. IAIG, WaMu, Countrywide, and Lehman brothers were all doing this. When a VP at Lehmann tried to blow the whistle on such fraud, he was "downsized."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/16/matthew-lee-lehman-accoun_n_500700.html
@Masked Evangelist
ReplyDelete"I think your sources ignored the role of deregulation and business friendly regulators."
Not at all, I discussed deregulation as the first discredited myth about the recession. The financial industry has been heavily regulated for years and there were no significant deregulatory actions prior to the recession that could be listed as causative. Let's not forget that Bush added 30,000 regulations over 8 years.
"The example of the 1977 Community Reinvestment Act is a bit dated and far fetched."
I would agree with you but for legislative changes in 1989, 1991, 1992, 1994, 1999, and 2008 or regulatory changes in 1995, 2005, and 2007. Considering the impact of the CRA on the incentives to offer loans to unqualified borrowers, I don't find it far-fetched at all.
"According to Krugman, it only applied to depository banks which only had a fraction of the bad loans. The Bush administration seemed reluctant to enforce regulations in general and boasted of cutting them."
The Bush Administration had the foresight to see what was coming and tried to implement changes. They were reluctant to enforce what might become a housing catastrophe, but oddly the Democratic congress wouldn't allow the administration to take effective action.
"Greenspan could have regulated subprime mortgages, but chose not to."
I don't defend Greenspan. By the way, I don't defend anyone. Above I've listed Republican malfeasance right along with Democrat malfeasance.
"When the housing bubble peaked in 2004-2006, Fannie and Freddy took a back seat to the big banks who had lobbied the SEC to loosen restrictions on how much debt their mortgage units could take, causing huge growth in the subprime market through private companies"
That takes a lot of gall to say that Fannie and Freddie took a back seat to anyone. Have you seen the charts showing the holdings of Fannie and Freddie? Not to mention, they backed the loans of the big banks and private companies, and they drove the big banks and private companies to continue lending with lower standards.
"Those on the left see the Moral Hazard as coming from financial firms making Liar's Loans. The broker of a crappy subprime mortgage immediately passes it on to someone else, getting rewarded immediately and not having to wait for 30 years."
This is not exclusive to the left. The right would agree. I would doubt that the left acutally opposed liar's loans given the official position of people like Barney Frank. But if I'm wrong, I'm glad left and right can agree.
Deregulation is hardly discredited. I highly recommend the links I provided even though they are Wikipedia articles.
ReplyDeleteRyan,
ReplyDeleteDiscredited means rejected by the person speaking. It is rarely used to mean that experts agree that is no longer a rational possibility.
Now, I grant you that the speaker usually hopes you will mistake the meaning to be the older latter meaning, even though the speaker rarely uses the word in that context (vide supra).
Heathen Republican, I googled "what caused great recession" and you were first on the search list. I'm impressed by that sort of thing, and before I start arguing with you, I'll admit I'm also impressed with the quality and quantity of your blogs.
ReplyDeleteAgain, I disagree with most of your reasoning, especially about the Bush administation knowing what was coming. If either the Bush administration and John McCain had truly had any foresight about what was coming, McCain would most likely be President now.
Regarding Barney Frank and his supposed attempts to prevent attempts to regulate Fannie and Freddie, the legislation McCain backed made it out of committee but was never brought up for consideration by the Republicans controlling Congress and therefore the agenda, but Republicans on Fox and Conservopedia are making Frank the fall guy.
For perspective, Fannie and Freddie had an accounting scandal in 2002-03, and they took a back seat to the big banks and shadow banks who rushed in to fill the vacuum. Here's one source for that claim:
http://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2010/09/housing_markets_3
You've pointed out the legislative/regulative changes that occured almost annually, and I certainly can't nitpick regarding that, however, I'm not convinced they led to the bubble in 2004-2007. I do still contend that the Bush administration didn't like regulating, and Paulsen and Bernanke admitted to "regulatory failures" which fueled the collapse. One example can be found here: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/27/business/27sec.html?em=&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1322802404-cYeoHHiSHUmBQir6VmgpGQ
SEO is one of my professional skills, and one of the primary traffic drivers for the site. I'm glad you are enjoying the content.
ReplyDelete" I disagree with most of your reasoning, especially about the Bush administation knowing what was coming."
I can't imagine I've ever made this claim. The Bush administration tried to reform Fannie and Freddie and were stopped by Democrats; they also tried to reform entitlements and were demonized by Democrats for going after granny. That's not the same as seeing the collapse coming.
" I do still contend that the Bush administration didn't like regulating, and Paulsen and Bernanke admitted to "regulatory failures" which fueled the collapse."
Yes, the regulatory failures were the failure of government bureaucrats to properly apply the regulations. The laws were in place, but the bureaucrats failed to apply them. Not the same thing.
You've highlighted a key issue that conservatives have with Bush Jr. He may have said he didn't like regulation, but his record is clear: 30,000 new regulations over 8 years. Politicians say a lot of things; it's what they do that matters.
You can continue to believe that deregulation was a cause of the recession, and I will never dissuade you from your faith.
I'd be willing to bet that the so-called onerous regulations were simply rules made to favor the "Big Boys" and exclude the small fry competition.
DeleteAlso, each and every one of us, including the crooks, knows in his heart that he is doing the "right thing."
I agree with something Heathen touched on here:
ReplyDeleteYou can continue to believe that deregulation was a cause of the recession, and I will never dissuade you from your faith.
This is the case for everyone who purports to have the answer to this complex question that is beyond most professionals.
I am sure myriad factors contributed to the recession. It was a jigsaw puzzle with countless pieces and each truth owner applies his faith algorithm of choice to claim the answer.
You can do nothing to dissuade anyone from their faiths. Admitting that the question requires too much data to truly answer seems not to be one of anyone’s choices. They must know, else they are inadequate; and whatever the answer is, it must line up with their basic personal political philosophies, else they are in adequate. We cannot wander around being inadequate, not can we?
John,
ReplyDelete"Admitting that the question requires too much data to truly answer seems not to be one of anyone’s choices. They must know, else they are inadequate; and whatever the answer is, it must line up with their basic personal political philosophies, else they are in adequate."
It also means that we might not be able to prevent another disaster, that the politicians we elect and economists we trust and businesses we patronize (pun intended) might be as clueless as we are or worse, that there might be a fundamental problem in our system, etc. We should be willing to take every factor into account. That's why I linked to the fairly comprehensive Wikipedia article. There truly is much blame to go around. Except to me.
@John and Ryan, my opinions and beliefs may change, but not the fact that I am always right.
ReplyDeleteI don't want to perseverate for too long on the topic, but I'm really trying to make sense of what happened in the 2000s. It is true that a touch of faith is involved here (something a heathen would notice), but I do have faith that this crisis could have been prevented or at least softened, and that cracking down on fraud and re- regulation and anti-trust enforcement can add some economic security in the future.
I certainly have a left leaning bias and place more credibility on sources like Krugmann or Roubini than NRO or American Spectator. My faith is belief is bolstered by some evidence that a lack of regulation existed for many of the key players, e.g. changing the rules for the 5 biggest banks in 04, getting rid of Glass-Steagall in the 90s, and the mortgage market being dominated by non-banks.
What is interesting about faith-or our basic assumptions about how the world works, is how we can all be logical thinkers, look at the same data, and draw contradictory conclusions about what happened.
What is interesting about faith-or our basic assumptions about how the world works, is how we can all be logical thinkers, look at the same data, and draw contradictory conclusions about what happened.
ReplyDeleteTruer words were never spoken. It took me a long time to learn that equally intelligent people can have the same data and opposite opinions.
It happens all the time. We question each others intelligence when we see it, but it is the process of arriving at conclusions in the first place that interests me more than anything else now. How can this be? The potential answers are quite fascinating, and cognitive psychologists think they know the answers.
You have to get to the point where you agree that question makes sense before you can seek the answer, and most people don't agree that the question makes sense in the first place, as they have already found "the facts" and they know them intimately.
"The function of the reasoning faculty is to RATIONALIZE what we already want to do."
ReplyDeleteI read that a long time ago and I always thought it was a good idea.
Doesn't the American People deserve some of the blame? It really bothers me that so much blame is focused towards the wealthy, and the republicans in this new political environment. The truth is that the American public was just as greedy and as much to blame. The Democratic policies under Clinton really started the ball rolling.
ReplyDeleteI would venture to say that 90% of the people that took the loans knew that what they were doing was wrong, but they wanted a nice house, car, vacations, etc.
People take responsibility for your own actions! In all the noise this simple truth has been forgotten; we control our own destinies. What is worst is that the people that broke the system now are protesting costing tax payers and wining and blaming.
People like my wife and I bought homes within our means and saved our money and invested like we were supposed and are the ones who really got screwed. As a business owner I will tell you there will be no real growth in this country until the people realize accountability. The entitlement view point of our society, fostered by media and our President has to go.
Iraq War, prescription benefit, and THE TAX CUTS. All unfunded. RECESSION. I'm a mathmatical IDIOT and I know that's what it was. So does everyone else.
ReplyDeleteIf you would refer to the deficit charts (a very accurate economical analysis), you will see that the 8 year term of W Bush had a great deal more to do with the Great Recession. And then, all of the misuse of power and money in the financial and political sector today. Blaming Democrat or Republican is completely missing the point, as both parties seem to be missing the integrity and accountability of making conscious decisions in the best interest of American citizens.
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